D4CE 5th Symposium: Session II Panel Discussion

Lawyers Philipp Kruse, Dr. Renate Holzeisen, and retired Paediatrician Dr. Ros Jones MD joined Ray L Flores to discuss their perspectives on the legal landscapes in their respective jurisdictions.
Dr. Renate Holzeisen described a ruling in Italy that upheld the constitutionality of Italy’s vaccine mandates based on ‘science.’ She considered the decision “a huge scandal,” given that COVID vaccines do not prevent contagiousness, which negates the scientific rationale for vaccine mandates in the first place. However, she said that admissions by the EMA and other authorities that the evidence does not support vaccination as a contagion control would be valuable to future legal actions.
Dr. Ros Jones described procedural and cultural barriers to legally challenging the vaccination of children in the UK. These included the Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (MHRA) and the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation (JCVI) offloading responsibility back and forth between them, court applications being deemed either too premature before vaccine approval or too late afterward, and a legal culture whereby the court did not evaluate the quality of scientific evidence behind official decisions, as long as “experts” had been consulted.
Ray L. Flores noted that in the US, cases were often similarly “discharged through a trapdoor,” for instance, via dismissal or based on standing, enabling judges to avoid engaging with scientific evidence and challenging questions. Philipp Kruse described a similar experience in Switzerland, whereby courts repeatedly declined to hear scientific evidence from expert witnesses.
In terms of constructive ways forward, Dr. Jones reflected on her experience that, despite the intransigence of government authorities and courts, “I think parents are listening… For the five to 11 [age group], just seven percent [in the UK] have had two doses. So I think the parents are voting with their feet.” She added that the COVID vaccine has only had around a 2.5 percent uptake in newborns to four-year-olds in the US, demonstrating a similar pattern.
Renate Holzeisen concluded by stressing that as public opinion changes in this way, judges and prosecutors are more willing to do their job. Ray Flores agreed, adding, “the courts follow the culture.”
This video is part of Doctors for COVID Ethics 5th Symposium: IN THE MIDST OF DARKNESS LIGHT PREVAILS. For more information about the symposium, please visit https://doctors4covidethics.org/gold-standard-covid-science-in-practice-an-interdisciplinary-symposium-v-in-the-midst-of-darkness-light-prevails/.