Batya Ungar-Sargon on Rise of White Progressives’ ‘Extremism’ on Race: ‘A New Found Obsession Driven by Media’

PHILLIP: “I also come back to why the focus so much on slavery when he — when it comes to rewriting history. There‘s a lot of history that is in these museums, but he‘s focused on one thing, and that is that there‘s too much slavery being mentioned in the United States of America. That‘s very odd, Batya, honestly.”
UNGAR-SARGON: “So, I want to start by saying I actually agree with everything that‘s been said. And I loved your opening. And so I offer these comments very humbly, because it‘s an honor to be included in this conversation, which is very solemn and I think we all understand that, and we are all looking for the common ground here. And so what I‘m about to say, I don‘t mean in any way to negate that tone, but starting around 2011, 2012, sociologists started to notice a shift in white liberal opinion polling to where white progressives became more extreme in their views on race than black and Hispanic Americans. And they called this, the sociologist did, called it ‘the great awokening.’ And when they postulated, where did this come from, why did white progressives suddenly start obsessing over race in a way that was actually far to the left of where Hispanic and black Americans were on this issue, they found that the media had shifted radically how it talked about these issues. So, for example, in 2010, the words ‘white supremacy’ were mentioned 75 times in the Washington Post and The New York Times.”
SINGH: “But the media is different from museums.
UNGAR-SARGON: “In 2020, the words ‘white supremacy’ were mentioned 700 times in The Washington Post, in The New York Times, and 2400 times in NPR. The word ‘racism’ 4000 times in 2020. The words ‘white’ and ‘racial privilege’ from 2013 to 2019 grew by 1,500% in The New York Times and The Washington Post, and the word ‘slavery’ itself exponentially skyrocketed as a percentage of words. I‘m offering this only to suggest that — “
PHILLIP: “Yeah, I understand. I’m just wondering what do you think is the problem with talking about slavery, white supremacy, racism, et cetera?”
UNGAR-SARGON: “So, the point I‘m trying to make here is that liberals will say, well, this is a reflection of reality, but of course it isn‘t. This is a reflection of a newfound obsession that was driven by the media, and that doesn‘t reflect either the moral evil of these things or the historical accuracy.”
PHILLIP: “I do want to dive into what you mean by that, because you say that it‘s — you don‘t think it‘s a reflection of reality. Based on what? Based on the idea that those things don‘t exist, that white supremacy doesn‘t exist, racism doesn‘t exist, that we shouldn‘t be talking about it anywhere?”
UNGAR-SARGON: “Obviously, all these things, I think, are evil, but there‘s not more slavery now to the — “
PHILLIP: “Yeah, but I think — “
SELLERS: “But that’s not — respectfully, that‘s not — “
PHILLIP: “Hold on a second, Bakari. Part of the problem is that back, you know, not that long ago, in the 50s or 60s, even beyond that, when there was actual Jim Crow happening in this country, people were actually treating black people as second-class citizens, we weren‘t talking about those things at all. Those words were virtually never mentioned. So is that — is that better? Was it better then or was it worse then?”
UNGAR-SARGON: “Abby, you don’t think that 2013 is the same as the 1950s, right?”
SELLERS: “Respectfully, and I‘ve had this debate — “
UNGAR-SARGON: “Do you really think that there‘s as big a difference between the 1960s and — “
PHILLIP: “That‘s not my point. My point is that the use of the language in present day, or the lack of the use of the language back when racism was apparent every single day in the streets of America doesn‘t reflect really anything except perhaps a better awareness of the reality that we live in in the country.”
SELLERS: “That‘s not the point.”
UNGAR-SARGON: “Do you think the country was more racist in 2013 — “
PHILLIP: “I didn‘t say anything about whether the country was more racist now.”