Veterans Are Suffering Because of FDA Red Tape

Today's guests are Oscar-nominated filmmaker Jon Shenk and former Navy SEAL Marcus Capone. Shenk is codirector, with Bonni Cohen, of the new Netflix documentary In Waves and War, which follows three former Navy SEALs as they use psychedelic-assisted therapy to deal with post-traumatic stress disorder and traumatic brain injuries related to their service.

Capone is one of the three main figures in the film. He first used the ultra-powerful substances ibogaine and 5MEO-DMT in 2017 and is the cofounder with his wife Amber of VETS, a nonprofit that helps veterans access psychedelic therapies. He’s also CEO of TARA Mind, a company seeking to expand the use of psychedelic-assisted mental health therapies for all Americans. He is featured in the 2023 Reason documentary Welcome To the Psychedelic Renaissance.

They talk with Nick Gillespie about why so many veterans and everyday Americans could benefit from psychedelic therapy and the challenges of depicting both the grim realities of war and the other-worldly experiences of tripping on ibogaine, which is called the "Mt. Everest of psychedelics." They also discuss why the Trump administration and an unlikely bipartisan group of legislators may well help usher in an era of legalized psychedelics.

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0:00–Introduction
1:40–The reality of war
10:34–Documenting war for film
21:05–The psychological toll of the Afghanistan War
31:23–Healthcare for veterans and ibogaine treatment
36:14–Amber Capone and the importance of veteran spouses
40:15–The psychedelic experience of ibogaine
44:16–Stanford University study on ibogaine
51:49–Visualizing the psychedelic experience
55:37–Legislative progress for psychedelic assisted therapy
1:05:52–The work of VETS and TARA Mind

Producer: Paul Alexander
Audio Mixer: Ian Keyser
Illustration: Eddie Marshall